Mazzocchioo

An interview with Cecilia Puga

The following interview was recorded via ZOOM on July 19th, 2024. with the participation of Ștefan Simion, Irina Meliță and Eliza Voiculescu

Perhaps we could start with your childhood recollections of the many travels you undertook, both within Chile and abroad.

CP
My travels have undoubtedly shaped my character. Until I was 18, I never spent more than two years in any one place - be it school, country, city, or home. I attended at least 15 different schools, which created a constant sense of interruption in my childhood and adolescence. While I can’t pinpoint exactly how this experience has impacted me, I believe it has had a profound effect on my daily life, on my relationships, and likely on my work as well. I would characterize my early years as marked by discontinuity.
It wasn’t until I began university that I experienced any real stability - socially, culturally, and territorially. I briefly studied history before switching to architecture, and many of my friendships originated during that time. This period holds significant personal meaning for me. It’s also important to mention that I studied during a dictatorship in Chile, a time when the country was largely isolated - culturally and politically, from the world around us.

SS
I read that you protested at a certain moment, which led to your suspension.

CP
That was during my time studying history at the University of Chile. Many students were suspended, not just me. It was a significant moment for me; perhaps if I hadn’t been suspended, I would have completed my studies in history or pursued sociology, which had also piqued my interest.

How come you changed from history to architecture?

CP
It was somewhat serendipitous. After being removed from the history program, I was contemplating whether to restart my studies in history or explore another field. One day, while I was in a park with a friend, he suggested, “Why not architecture?” I had never considered it before; it wasn’t even on my radar.

SS
Even though you had the influence of your grandfather, the renowned architect Sergio Larraín?

CP
I was very close to my grandfather, and we shared a wonderful personal relationship. However, toward the end of his life, he focused primarily on pre-Columbian art and was involved in creating a new museum. His major architectural work was earlier in his career, so I didn’t have the opportunity to connect with him on that aspect while he was actively practicing. While I knew he was an architect, I didn’t fully appreciate his significance in Chilean architecture. It wasn’t a prominent topic in our family.

SS
I imagine that during your architectural studies you came to see his importance.

CP
Absolutely. When I began studying at the same school where he served as dean and famously burned the Vignola - a classic Beaux-Arts text - which is a symbolic moment representing a rejection of neoclassical education in Chile’s architectural school. This was when I truly started to grasp his significance and his influence on contemporary and modern architecture in Chile during the 20th century.
My grandfather was also an art collector, so I was exposed to prominent modern artists from early 20th-century. His house was filled with works by Giacometti, Picasso, Albers, Paul Klee, as well as pre-Columbian art, among others. This environment profoundly influenced my visual culture and fostered an intuitive appreciation for art. His house was the only stable place in my life until I turned 18, serving as a constant backdrop from my birth through my adolescence. I believe this stability shaped my preferences, even though architecture itself wasn’t the central focus for me at that time.

SS
As a parenthesis, I have a theory, a bit personal, that as architects we’re always trying to recreate the places of our childhood, in a manner or another, not directly, of course.

CP
I think there’s definitely a pattern in my case. That house was quite special. When my grandfather was the dean of the School of Architecture, he persuaded the rector to purchase an old 19th-century farm - a typical rural structure in Chile, with a colonial style, adobe walls, and a central courtyard. The university acquired this property and established the School of Architecture, the School of Art, and later the School of Design, which is still the campus for these programs today.
Alongside this main building, my grandfather bought a simple barn - very modest and unadorned, with two sloping roofs and galleries to the north and south. This was in the 1960s, I believe, and he transformed that barn into his home. It was straightforward and somewhat austere, yet absolutely beautiful in its simplicity. The proportions of the spaces were crucial, as was the depth of the walls and the way light filtered into the interior. The atmosphere was dark and textured, yet entirely devoid of decoration; it was pure construction - essentially the minimum required for living.
Inside, everything came to life. Pre-Columbian textiles, modern paintings, large sculptures - all of these elements engaged in a constant dialogue. I find that to be incredibly important. Much of my focus stems from this experience. It might be about the essence of things, their simplicity, and perhaps a connection to more generic spaces.

SS
I wonder: Do you by any chance have any photo with this house that we could share here?

CP
I’ll look into that.

casa sergio larain interviu Cecilia 2.jpg

Casa Sergio Larraín,
Photo: Sistema de Difusión Arq. Chilena PUC, Chile 1959

After your studies in Chile, you went to Italy, right? How was the school in Italy compared to the one in Chile?

CP
I went to Rome, seizing an opportunity to study there before completing my degree in Chile. I was able to take courses, but I couldn’t finish because I hadn’t completed the first cycle required for exams. It was an interesting experience, as I could choose my courses without following a strict program. La Sapienza is a remarkable school located in Trastevere, next to a well-known restoration school for painting and sculpture.
What struck me most during that year was learning to engage with pre-existing structures and historical buildings. The methodologies employed in Italy for architectural interventions were fascinating. The depth of their archival research was impressive; they approached each building with a thorough understanding that was revelatory for us in Chile, a younger country.
Another significant experience was the opportunity to visit numerous historically buildings. It was truly fascinating to explore architecture through the lenses of history, technology, and materiality, backed by extensive knowledge and an array of questions. Being in Rome was invaluable; despite the challenging times in Europe, the quality of life there was wonderful.

SS
We had an introductory discussion with Rodrigo Pérez de Arce. He remembers that he came back to Chile at the exact time when you and Smiljan presented your diplomas. Do you have any memories regarding your diploma project?

CP
I have quite a lot of memories. I started my diploma project before going to Italy and finished it after returning to Chile. Initially, I wanted to complete it in Italy to extend my stay, but there wasn’t an agreement between my school and the Italian school, which complicated the formalities. So, I had to come back.
When I began working on my diploma, there was a vibrant underground cultural movement in Santiago, still during the dictatorship, which marked a significant cultural moment. Many people returned from abroad, bringing a surge of music, art, fashion, and other creative disciplines that thrived outside of formal venues. The theater scene was particularly dynamic, rediscovering the city by utilizing unconventional spaces like garages or abandoned theaters.
This was a formative time for us, as we explored the city and occupied these spaces with art, culture, music, and creativity. It was a powerful and fruitful period, especially for my generation, who grew up under intense political pressure. This moment provided us with a new understanding and experience of culture, a form of expression that, while indirectly opposing the military regime, wasn’t a conventional political activism.
My diploma project was conceived as a space for this cultural expression. It had two phases, each involving a different examination. In the first round, the jury questioned the site I had chosen for my project. Two weeks before the exam, I made the radical decision to change the site. I did this without consulting my tutor, which was a bold move. In just 15 days, I had to produce a complete project, including a model, images, and drawings. It was a chaotic and crazy experience.
When I arrived at the exam with Rodrigo Pérez de Arce and several other esteemed professors, my drawings weren’t completely finished. Back then, there were no computers, so everything was done by hand, and I didn’t have the time to finalize them in ink. As a result, my drawings looked more like drafts. It was a very intense moment, but it ended in a positive way. Nevertheless, I believe the decision was absolutely correct, despite the enormous risk I took. Completing a diploma project in just 15 days was a daunting challenge, especially given the significance of what a diploma represents.

IM
So, all of this was before the change of regime in Chile?

CP
By the end of my diploma, I believe we were still under the dictatorship, but we had just held an election where we voted against the continuation of the regime. The election was imminent, though I can’t recall the exact timeline.

IM
So, these underground, cultural movements and occupying other spaces and young people doing meetings – this was definitely before the change, so it was like in anticipation of what was to come, right?

CP
Yes, it was a moment when the country began to open up, and young people started asserting their right to use the city in different ways, not just for political demostrations, also to share, to listen to music, to dance, to have fun. We got the right to focus on culture, on art and music, and that didn’t equate to supporting the regime. This represented a significant cultural shift.

SS
I think it is somehow similar to what happened in Romania.

IM
That’s why I asked too.

SS
Yes, at first sight it seems like a complete rebirth somehow, but of course it’s not that neat..

IM
In Romania the change of the regime from the dictatorship to democracy was much more violent, so the country was not opening gradually, it was even tighter and tighter and more fear and less liberties, not to say less food and the situation was extreme. And so in ‘89 when the revolution came, it was really violent and many people died.

CP
In our case, the transition was relatively peaceful. There was significant tension and difficulty, but it occurred through elections and widespread participation. It felt more like a freedom movement.

SS
You mentioned the long history of Italian architecture and its tradition. What is your stance regarding a certain building tradition in Chile? Would you say there’s a certain character or specificity to the houses in Chile, to the architecture here?

CP
It’s challenging to discuss architectural continuity in Chile. Our country has been rebuilt numerous times. Historically, we were a poor nation, even before the Spanish colonization; we were not a core of the empire like Peru or Bolivia. We were a Capitanía General, not a Virreinato. Much of our architecture has been constructed using earth and mud, and with frequent, powerful earthquakes, the country has had to rebuild constantly. There are many stories of entire cities being destroyed due to seismic events.
As a result, we have a contradictory relationship with heritage. There’s a fascination with novelty and the new, which complicates our approach to preserving the past. While we’ve made efforts to protect our heritage - our cities, our historical neighborhoods - this has often come with the insertion of new, poor-quality buildings.
The economic growth of the ‘80s led to significant renovations and urban expansion, but this occurred after the economy was privatized. The city grew primarily to meet the demands of business and the real estate market, with decisions driven by profit rather than an articulated plan for preservation. If an area presented an attractive business opportunity, it was often sacrificed for new developments, leading to the construction of large towers with little regard for heritage.
As a result, very few elements of our architectural heritage have been genuinely preserved. The city is predominantly a product of construction between the ‘60s and the ‘90s. The ‘60s marked a significant transition from rural to urban living, leading to rapid urbanization and industrialization. Unfortunately, this growth often occurred haphazardly, much like in other Latin American cities, where heritage was a marginal concern.
Currently, there is a timid attempt to reconsider the reuse of existing infrastructure, but I still don’t see a coherent strategy for heritage preservation.
One important thing to note is that while I pursued studies in heritage, my primary interest has always been contemporary architecture. My engagement with heritage was somewhat serendipitous. My time in Italy provided me with a foundational understanding of how to approach heritage in architecture, but it wasn’t my main focus. I chose to go to Rome partly because I had lived in as a child and was fascinated by the city and the historical overlapings, and the program offered there focused on heritage studies. So, I embraced the opportunities presented to me.
Now, we are involved in three different projects related to old buildings and rehabilitation, while also integrating contemporary architecture. We don’t focus on restoration; rather, we are interested in how these structures can interact with the present - considering aspects like technology and materials.

SS
Yes, it’s true that from afar, we noticed Chilean architecture, particularly due to the beautiful houses placed as objects in those fantastic landscapes, without any immediate built context.

IM
And through contemporary architecture.

SS
Yes. And some of your houses are set in such beautiful landscape conditions. If we would move on to your office, we are curious to know how you work. How big is your office right now? How many people are working in your office and then I would be very curious as to how do you begin, how do you start a new project when it comes to you?

CP
I have a very small structure. Until 2019, I worked alone, always collaborating with others on specific projects as needed. For the Palacio Pereira, I worked independently but collaborated with Paula Velasco, who is now my partner. We initially invited Alberto Molleto to join us, just for that project. We formally established our studio in 2019, just a few years ago. Paula was one of my students at the Catholic University, and she later collaborated with me on a couple of projects before I invited her to join the Palacio Pereira competition.
We won and began working together, which has been a wonderful experience. She’s much younger than me, and has a background from the AA, specializing in technology and geometry. This allows us to collaborate effectively as a complementary team. Our conversations flow easily, as we share the same cultural background.

Palacio Pereira, Cecilia Puga, Paula Velasco, Alberto Moletto, Santiago, Chile, 2019,
Photo: Maria Gonzalez

Although we are at different stages in our careers, our paths have been somewhat parallel. Currently, we manage all our projects together, but our pace is slow due to a limited number of projects. Our office structure is like a sponge; it expands with new work and contracts when there isn’t much to do. Right now, it’s just Paula, myself, and two other team members. However, we’re in the process of expanding again, having recently won some competitions and secured new projects. In two or three months, I expect our team will grow beyond the current size. We’ve never been more than ten in total.
Our approach is very artisanal, and we’re involved in every phase of the process, from the initial drawings to the final details of each connection. This level of involvement is feasible because we manage only a few projects at a time.

SS
I imagine it’s also an option to maintain the office at a certain scale. Some of the most beautiful and significant houses studied in schools of architecture often don’t emerge from large firms. Instead, they come from a very slow and thoughtful process, nurtured by one or two architects, or a small group, allowing the project to fully flourish.

CP
Yes, I think that’s probably true, but we are always aware of the fragility of such a structure. Maintaining a balance is not always feasible. It’s a delicate equilibrium that requires us to engage in various activities, such as teaching and other enriching pursuits. We appreciate this diversity and believe it enriches our practice, allowing for greater depth and complexity. However, it demands significant energy and effort from us.

IM
Yes, we work in a similar way. I have one curiosity: the competition that you won, for example, was it an open competition? How are competitions organized in Chile? Can anyone participate, or are they mainly by invitation, where several offices get invited?

CP
Most of our projects come from competitions. We do receive some private commissions, mainly for houses and similar small-scale projects, but never for large ones. So, we are always participating in competitions, which are normally open.

IM
Are local authorities generally the ones who organize competitions for projects of greater importance to the city?

CP
Yes, but the issue is that most of these projects never get built. For example, we won a competition for an incredible cruise terminal in Punta Arenas, located at the very southern tip of the planet. It was a beautiful project, integral to the urban renovation of the entire port area. We assembled a talented team, including a skilled urban designer, and it was a significant undertaking for us. Although we won and everything was in order, they ultimately decided not to move forward with it. Similarly, we won another competition for a national park in Patagonia. The entire project was ready - everything was defined, and construction could have started immediately - but they didn’t proceed. Winning a competition doesn’t guarantee that the project will be built. Competitions are held, but the final decision to pursue a project rest with the authorities.

IM
They just didn’t build it or did they choose another architect?

CP
No, they just didn’t move forward with the project. In the case of the national park, we completed the entire project, which involved extensive collaboration. We worked with biologists, glaciologists, geologists, and botanical ecologists. We often form international teams because we value working with people who bring different perspectives and can enhance our approach to various issues. This collaborative process is very enriching for our architectural experience, and we truly enjoy it. However, despite the thorough work and beautiful results, I believe that the real essence of architecture lies in the construction phase. For me, that’s the most joyful and fulfilling part.

Punta Arenas International Passenger Terminal
Competition, Chile, First Place, Cecilia Puga, Paula Velasco, Patricio Mardones, Susana Lopez, Francisca
Astaburuaga, 2017

Do you allow for any flexibility in decision-making on the construction site?

CP
When working with the state, there isn’t much freedom for decision-making on-site. With private clients, it’s a different story, but generally, the process is quite strict. We operate under specific terms for the entire contract, meaning that most decisions have to be finalized during the project phase. Once we reach the construction stage, changes can only be proposed by the client, government, or municipality. Various factors - like administrative concerns and budget constraints - play a significant role. Typically, by the time we get to the bidding stage, the project is already set in stone, leaving little room for development during construction.

SS
How do you present your projects in terms of drawings? What is your personal approach to hand drawings, sketches, renders, and models? Do you prefer to study and present projects through physical models or other methods?

CP
We approach projects with two simultaneous pathways. The first is program and plan organization, what we call the “relational system.” Our goal is to create a configuration that is as generic and adaptable as possible because we view architecture in the long term. We understand that today’s needs may not align with the building’s future demands. We feel a responsibility to ensure the potential for future transformation, which we achieve through a flexible spatial organization that interacts harmoniously with the structure.
The second focus is on the building’s texture, spatial quality, and ambiance, which we believe are inherently influenced by the structure itself. We see the structure as a powerful architectural tool that significantly impacts user interaction and light dynamics. Given that we often work within financially constrained contexts, the budget for structural elements is rarely an issue, whereas other aspects may face tighter constraints. So, if we concentrate on creating a fruitful structure, that would suffice. It’s not always possible, but it remains a priority.
These two elements are central to our initial design process, while the façade becomes a secondary consideration that comes much later. Sometimes, our buildings may not conform to conventional standards of beauty, as the aesthetic is often a result of the spatial and structural system rather than an initial focus on appearance.

SS
So, the drawings are just a means to let the architectural thinking grow?

CP
Yes, for me, drawings are just a means to let architectural thinking grow. I’ve never considered myself good at drawing; it’s always been a practical tool. I won’t ever publish a drawing with my signature - that’s not what it’s about for me. My drawings are instruments for thinking through a project. I can’t think abstractly; I think through drawing. I work by sketching repeatedly in my notebook and using a simple program on the computer. As many teams, we do permanent iterations between 2D work and three-dimensional models, which are a crucial part of our process. Occasionally, we’ll create physical models when time and budget allow it, as we believe they play a significant role in our design development.

IM
I had a question. Since you and Paula are both women partners in the office, do you find it challenging to navigate a field mostly driven by men, such as architecture and construction? Do you have any experiences or stories related to this?

CP
Not really. I would say the problem isn’t so much in the architecture or construction worlds, but more about the commission’s opportunities. The big issue is, I guess women are generally considered for certain types of projects, mostly domestic or interior design. When it comes to more complex projects involving engineering or fabrication and big budgets, commissioners don’t outright dismiss us; women just don’t come to mind. Women are rarely on the list of architects for those kinds of projects. I think that’s a cultural problem.
That’s why we mainly participate in competitions - beside houses, we rarely receive direct commissions. For more complex projects, we have to win competitions because we won’t be invited to take them on otherwise. I believe this is a broader issue for women in architecture, not just a problem we face in Chile.

IM
No, definitely. In this context, I was also curious on your opinion regarding this new trend of the predominance of girls studying architecture, with fewer boys coming into this direction.

CP
I think the increase in female students in architecture schools reflects the precariousness of the profession. Architecture has become less sustainable as a career, and for men, who are traditionally seen as primary economic providers, it’s a tougher choice now. It’s become more about vocational passion. This shift has opened the field to more women. In the cultural sphere, which is predominantly driven by women - at least in Chile - there are very few men involved. The cultural sector often lacks financial support, which drives men to seek other opportunities. Ultimately, this shift could lead to significant cultural changes across the entire architecture and construction ecosystem.

And at a time when this ecosystem is becoming increasingly important and should be examined more closely, especially with regard to climate change and the role of construction in this context, it’s crucial that we pay even more attention. I’m curious: do you think this shift happened because architecture has become less well-paid, causing men to move away from it? Is it possible that architects, perhaps some generations before us, made a mistake by relinquishing certain responsibilities in construction? For instance, in Switzerland, architects still bear significant responsibilities, including comprehensive insurance and oversight of the project from start to finish, even extending up to ten years after completion. In many other countries, some of these responsibilities have been removed from architects. Perhaps we didn’t advocate strongly enough to retain them, which might explain why we’ve lost some of these roles.

CP
I can’t really speak about that, because in Chile, architects have no legal responsibility for construction. The structural engineer assumes all responsibility, and if the structure fails during an earthquake or other events, the law typically holds the engineer accountable. For material issues, the builder is responsible. Architects have never had those responsibilities here, so it’s not something we’ve lost.
I’d say that when a practice is involved in business projects, design often becomes a secondary concern. Many architects cater to exactly what the developer wants, turning their role into more of a service. In real estate, the product is defined by other values and criteria, not by the architect or the quality of the space. I think that ultimately shapes how architecture is valued, and it carries very little weight in the decision-making process.

IM
That’s sad.

CP
Yes, I think it’s related to that. Our cities have reached a certain equilibrium. The era of monumental buildings, grand theatres, that big artistic discourse of the past, has already occurred. While there’s still debate, it’s not the same as in the ‘60s or ‘50s; it’s a different moment. So now, that discussion feels more peripheral compared to when cities were densifying in the 20th century. The role of architecture has certainly changed.

IM
Yes, it’s true, it’s shifting, I think. It will still change.

SS
Let’s maintain some optimism however. As we’re getting close to the end of the talk, maybe one of the final questions regards your position as the director of the Chilean Museum of Pre-Columbian Art. Can you share what it means to lead a museum today while also managing an architectural office? I was thinking to what you shared with us in the beginning of our conversation, that initially you took history studies and now you are leading an institution focused on history, so you’re looking back and you’re also looking forward.

CP
I have a long-standing relationship with the museum, over 20 years on the board, working closely with the previous director who was instrumental in its foundation and development for 40 years. When the pandemic hit, the museum faced significant challenges, including a sharp decline in visitors. Around the same time, the director resigned, and as a board, we had to consider how to navigate this critical moment for the museum.
We decided it would be beneficial someone of the board to take charge of the museum during this transition. I stepped into this role partly because our architectural projects had come to a halt, not only due to the pandemic but also because of the political unrest in Chile following the 2019 riots, so I had time for it. I had to reassess my work structure, and taking on the museum position part-time allowed me to continue my architectural practice, which is vital to me.
Leading the museum has been a fascinating experience. While architecture can feel solitary, the museum work is collective. We have a large team, filled with discussions and diverse layers of involvement. I believe I have a knack for leadership and organization, skills that have been honed through architecture. Our training equips us to articulate and connect various elements, which is essential for leading an institution.
While I’m not a specialist in Pre-Columbian art, I can see the bigger picture and connect different aspects that influence our curatorial approach. I think it’s been working well.

SS
I want to underline the beautiful coincidence that it is Smiljan who has made the architectural project for the expansion or renovation; I don’t know which is the right word...

CP
We’ve been very close friends since school and shared a workspace for nearly 20 years, though we separated our offices just a year ago. Throughout our time together, we exchanged ideas, references, etc, even as we primarily focused on our own work. I truly admire him; he’s arguably the most significant architect in Chile today, making substantial impacts not just in architecture but also in art, writing and culture.
When we decided to expand the museum with a new gallery - especially significant during Chile’s second centenary of independence - I immediately thought of Smiljan. We received a major funding boost from a private company, and it was clear that he should be the architect involved. So, we directly commissioned him, which turned out to be an excellent decision. He created an incredible gallery for us called Chile before Chile.
As part of the board together with the director, we traveled through Europe and the U.S. to explore new galleries and technologies. We were particularly inspired by the African Gallery at the British Museum, which was beautifully executed. After contacting the designer, Joffrey Pickup, we invited him to collaborate on our project together with Smiljan, resulting in what I believe is one of the most beautiful galleries in Latin America. Smiljan also renovated the patios and improved the entire building, marking a pivotal moment for the museum. Since then, our visitor numbers have significantly increased, and it has truly transformed the institution.

SS
I must confess that when we thought of inviting you two, we simply really admired both of your architectures. We had no idea that you were so connected one to each other. So, we are really very touched by all this turn of events.

CP
We are very close friends, yes.

And here’s the final question, in anticipation of the conference in Bucharest. Architects typically focus on their projects, but they also engage in related areas like teaching and writing. Additionally, architectural conferences themselves represent a distinct genre. I’m curious about your thoughts on what an architectural conference is and how you plan to prepare for it. Do you have any particular reflections or strategies regarding this subject?

CP
You know, the feedback aspect of conferences can be quite elusive for presenters. It’s intriguing how the same project can be framed in different ways depending on the audience and context. Each presentation becomes an opportunity to highlight various dimensions - be it sustainability, social impact, or structural innovation.
This narrative flexibility not only keeps the discussions engaging but also encourages deeper reflection on our work as architects. It pushes us to articulate our intentions and understand the broader implications of our designs. Preparing for a conference can indeed feel like a valuable exercise in self-examination, allowing us to refine our perspectives and connect our projects to larger themes in architecture.
Finding that balance between presenting authentically and being mindful of audience expectations is key. It can be a challenge, but it also enriches the discourse surrounding our work. Each conference is a chance to explore and communicate our evolving understanding of architecture, making it a rewarding endeavor despite the difficulties.

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An interview with Cecilia Puga